James Barclay

[Malop]

Thought I'd comment on some of the surprises I discovered about Elves (and also humans) in Once Walked With Gods

1. Elves have different Gods
2. The worship of the Gods has created factions in the Elves
3. Not all Elves live forever
4. The Colleges don't exist yet

So are there some hints in the Raven books about all of these (well number 4 is fairly obvious)? And did you spot them?

Things that didn't surprise me:
1. Humans destroying the world (we never get a good rap do we)
2. TaiGethen battles are immense, amazing and extremely fast
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Member and President of the Will Begman Appreciation Society.
Fantasycon 2005 Walsall Attendee
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Fantasycon 2010 Nottingham (stopped over for lunch)
Fantasycon 2011 Brighton (Is that in France?)

[Max Power]

Number three was a surprise to me as was the hierarchical structure of the Elves. What about the proto Clawbound? I was interested to see where they evolved from.
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If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.

[Malop]

Agree about the Clawbound, I sort of assumed that as a society they were older than the TaiGethen, interesting to see they're not.

Also rather amusing they start off as the "nutter in the woods" rather than a specific aim of the Elves.

In fact the entire future of the elves seems to depend on nutters in the wood
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Member and President of the Will Begman Appreciation Society.
Fantasycon 2005 Walsall Attendee
Fantasycon 2006-2009 Nottingham Attendee
Fantasycon 2010 Nottingham (stopped over for lunch)
Fantasycon 2011 Brighton (Is that in France?)

[Shriker]

Hmm, well I think for some reason I knew the Elves had different gods, don't know where I got it from though.

Was also suprised about the differing lifetimes of the elves, and also enjoyed them calling the humans Blink-lives

Never thought about it before reading the book but when they mentioned Triverne I was like "ooooooh yeah! Awsome " Also enjoyed the mention of the splits in the lords of triverne in build up to the split of the mage society

What suprised me the most was that the Elves held off the Garonin for 20 years! Balaia fell in weeks if I remember lol if less. Didn't suprise me as much when they said they had over 3000 Tai Gethen though! I wouldn't like to be in any army facing that.

Things that didn't suprise me:
As you said, humans destroying everything.
The humans betraying the traitor Ynissul.
Auum being awsome
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Who's the bigger fool, the fool or the fool who follows him...

[James]

Actually, there is a reference to No 3 in The Raven novels with Ilkar tlaking about how he would have to live on 'for four hundred years' after The Raven are dead. He doesn't say he would live forever.

More on the ClawBound in book 2 as well as the split in human magic (the Sundering).

Good thread, Paul...
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'A human with a hand outstretched in friendship carries the fangs of a taipan in his palm.' A TaiGethen saying.

[Tris]

Hi All

I must confess I have been a member for a while but never actually posted.

*****Spoilers***** (just incase anyone managed to miss all the others)

Loving the new series, it's great to get the back story of the Elven nation.

I agree the proto Clawbound, were a huge surprise, will be interesting to see how they evolve.

Some other things that I found quite surprising:

The Elves living on both Calaius and Hausolis (sp?) at the same time for a long period, I don't know why but I'd always assumed that they started on H, then opened a portal and fled when the Garonin showed up. (with one magic similar to Septern?)

No Mana abilities at all with the elves and humans introduce mana/magic to them, I guess I always figured it was the other way round, (and humans learn't it from the elves when they arrived) given the Al-Drechar and the statue of Yiniss being bound by one magic etc

[Malop]

Agree about the Elves having no magic, it will be interesting how they "bootstrap" themselves into being strong magic users.

Another thing that's just occurred to me, no Demons with the human mages. Will that be part of the split of the magic (or maybe the cause of it)?
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Member and President of the Will Begman Appreciation Society.
Fantasycon 2005 Walsall Attendee
Fantasycon 2006-2009 Nottingham Attendee
Fantasycon 2010 Nottingham (stopped over for lunch)
Fantasycon 2011 Brighton (Is that in France?)

[Shriker]

Possibly part of the cause Malop, seen as only Xetesk used demons (and Julatsa for punishment I believe, hope to read more on that).

Yeah took me a while to grasp they lived in both places at once, maybe the mana wasn't as strong on Hausolis but it must have been there, otherwise the Garonin would have no reason to attack, and considering they spent 20 years fighting them it must have been worth it...interesting aye? The portal was underground as I remember so maybe mana wasn't as accessible

Since the split in magic is quite close, maybe the Al-Drechar will appear in these books, seen as they would have to learn it before it is lost. Then again, maybe the elves keep learning it longer than the humans and use that to their advantage, who knows, I'm throwing theories all over the joint
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Who's the bigger fool, the fool or the fool who follows him...

[wigwam]

I think the only real suprise to me that Elves did not have magic before Humans [what with the One Magic issues etc].

I was not too suprised about Humans having unified magic at this stage as I sort of assumed that with Triverne Lake significance in Raven.

Tribes based on gods/age was very interesting - will we get to know more about the Gods? (I mean Takaar did walk with them once!)

[Lizzy]

Main surprise for me was also the lack of magic. Looking forward to seeing how that develops in book 2

But also the different races of elves. I don't think that was so apparent in the Raven books or that the different races have specific gods.

Another fun surprise was having a Wytch lord. He was pretty awesome

Oh and welcome to all the new people here
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Listen to Lizzy, she's always right! as said by Jovial

[Shriker]

lol can't believe it only just clicked that he's a wytch lord

Tis cool though again building up to the split in mage society.
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Who's the bigger fool, the fool or the fool who follows him...

[James]

Well, well, well... terribly glad to have caused surprises.

About magic, all I'll say is that you don't have to be the first to practice it to become best at it... (just look at all the sports we invented here in England for a start).

Just to clear up. Hausolis was the original home of the elves. Despite not having magic of their own as a skill, the elves are suffused with mana because of their innate links to nature and the land and stuff. That's why the Garonin wanted them and, more importantly control of the portal to Calaius and of course, Balaia too.

Feel free to post questions in this thread (or in new threads) and also anything you found confusing cos there's still time for me to make issues clear in book 2.
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'A human with a hand outstretched in friendship carries the fangs of a taipan in his palm.' A TaiGethen saying.

[wigwam]

Well you did ask James so here is my wishlist of clarifcation:

1) the title of the original book. We keep getting referneces to Takaar once walking with gods and elves acknowledge it as reality but what does it really mean?
Was he "Adam" of the Elves?
Did other elves freely interact with their Gods?
What caused them to withdraw? ETC!

2) Garonin!
Now be fair James. We accept we get introduced to the Raven 12 years after they have been formed, and will not hear about their formation/early years.
BUT we got introduced to the Elves 3000 years on, then have tantalising snippets about the Garonin's beef with them. Then we get transported back to that era but still start years after the actual fights between them. And yet Auum was known to them so there must have been more of a dialogue/interaction?
Unless I am pre-empting a cross-over Garonin Universe tell us more about them please and the time of the wars; discovery of Calaius from their old homes etc

3) Helping Takaar with his Magic-Birthing headache. Why would the wytch lord do that when he was there to snuff them out?

[Malop]

I'm also interested in the Elven Gods, are they actually Gods or just heroic figures from the past?

Perhaps the Elves have a different concept of Gods and how they interact with the world.
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Member and President of the Will Begman Appreciation Society.
Fantasycon 2005 Walsall Attendee
Fantasycon 2006-2009 Nottingham Attendee
Fantasycon 2010 Nottingham (stopped over for lunch)
Fantasycon 2011 Brighton (Is that in France?)

[Shriker]

I always thought the phrase "Once walked with gods" applied metaphorically, as in he was such an iconic and heroic figure he almost was seen on the same level as the gods?

The Garonin, yes I too would like to hear more about their fight with the elves, but maybe that could be a separate book like lightstealer?

Remember with Auum though, the Garonin might have known him by sight but he isn't high up in the Tai Gethen at this point and the Garonin aren't known for their conversational skills.

In the end we will probably always want to know more, I know I wanted to know more about the new dimension at the end of Ravensoul, but you have to stop somewhere
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